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Saturday, October 25, 2008

Judith Marie

"Judith Marie"

This was originally posted on my home page at http://webpages.charter.net/drkstlkr/JudithMarie.htm, but I decided to move it to my blog page so people could comment and read other people's comments.

Prodigious fans of
A Perfect Circle and Tool may find this interesting...

When I bought
Tool's album 10,000 Days, I wondered what was the meaning of "10,000 days"? What was the significance? I even tried tracing the date back from the date the album came out, and still couldn't figure out why was "10,000 days" so important. I then began reading the lyrics of "Wings For Marie (Part 1)" and "10,000 Days (Part 2)" to find out. As I was reading the lyrics of "10,000 Days (Part 2)", a name stood out to me... "Judith Marie". "Judith" ...that's a song on Mer De Noms by A Perfect Circle. Who is this "Judith" that Maynard James Keenan keeps singing about? So, I did a little research and now I see a few different songs written by "M.J.K." from a different angle, under a different light, and see them almost for the first time (sorry, couldn't resist). I hope you'll find this as enlightening as I did...

Instead of just giving you all of the information, I want you to see and experience it the way I did. First, visit this web site:


Hmm... interesting, eh? Now, visit this next website...


You may want to skip towards the bottom of the web page listed above to the section "Track Information & Trivia". After you've realized who "Judith Marie" is, now start reading Maynard's lyrics. Even though you may have them memorized, you may see these songs in a whole new light, and by all means, please play these songs while you're reading the lyrics! First, take a look at the song "Judith" by
A Perfect Circle off of their album Mer De Noms. Read and listen to the song very carefully, and then you'll probably have the same reaction I did.

"Judith" by
A Perfect Circle from the album Mer de Noms

You're such an inspiration for ways that I will never ever choose to be.
Oh so many ways for me to show you how your Savior has abandoned you.
Thank (f__k) your God.
He did this, took all you had and left you this way.
Still you pray, never stray, never taste of the fruit, never thought to question why.
It's not like you killed someone.
It's not like you drove a hateful spear into His side.
Praise the One who left you broken down and paralyzed.
He did it all for you.
Oh so many ways for me to show you how your dogma has abandoned you.
Pray to your Christ, to your God.
Never taste of the fruit,
Never stray, never break,
Never choke on a lie,
Even though He's the one who did this to you
Thought to question why.
It's not like you killed someone.
It's not like you drove a spiteful spear into His side.
Talk to Jesus Christ as if He knows the reasons why He
Did this all to you.
He did it all for you.

Lyrics provided by http://www.aperfectcircle.com/

Now, if you want to see almost a whole different side of Maynard about "Judith Marie", read and listen carefully to the lyrics of "Wings For Marie (Part 1)" and "10,000 Days (Part 2)" off of
Tool's album 10,000 Days...

"Wings For Marie (Part 1)" by
Tool from the album 10,000 Days

You...
You believed ...
You believed in moments none could see.
You believed in me.

A passionate spirit,
Uncompromised,
Boundless and open,
A light in your eyes that could end all lies.

Broken, broken
Fell at the hands of this moment so that I wouldn't see.
It was you who prayed for me so,
What have I done
To be a son to an angel?
What have I done
To be worthy?

Daylight dims leaving cold fluorescence,
Difficult to see you in this light.
Please forgive this selfish question, but
What am I to say to all these ghouls tonight?
She never told a lie,
...Well might have told a lie,
But never lived one.

Didn't have a life
Didn't have a life
But surely saved one
So I'm alright
Now it's time for us to let you go.

"10,000 Days (Wings Part 2)" by
Tool from the album 10,000 Days

Listen to the tales and romanticize,
How we follow the path of the hero.
Boast about the day when the rivers overrun,
How we rise to the height of our halo.

Listen to the tales as we all rationalize
Our way into the arms of the savior.
Feigning all the trials and the tribulations,
None of us have actually been there.
Not like you.

Ignorant fibbers in the congregation
Gather around spewing sympathy,
Spare me.
None of them can even hold a candle up to you.
Blinded by choices, hypocrites won't see

But, enough about the collective Judas.
Who could deny you were the one who
Illuminated?
You'll have a piece of the divine.

And this little light of mine, the gift you passed on to me;
I'll let it shine to guide you safely on your way,
Your way home ...

Oh, what are they going to do when the lights go down
Without you to guide them all to Zion?
What are they going to do when the rivers overrun.
Other than tremble incessantly?

High as a wave, but I'll rise on up off the ground.
You are the light and the way, they'll only read about.
I only pray, Heaven knows when to lift you out.
Ten thousand days in the fire is long enough, you're going home.

You're the only one who can hold your head up high,
Shake your fists at the gates saying:
"I have come home now!
Fetch me the Spirit, the Son, and the Father.
Tell Them their pillar of faith has ascended.
It's time now!
My time now!
Give me my, give me my wings!"

"Give me my, give me my, give me my wings!"

You are the light and way, that they will only read about.

Set as I am in my ways and my arrogance,
Burden of proof tossed upon the believers.
You were the witness, my eyes, my evidence,
Judith Marie, unconditional one.

Daylight dims leaving cold fluorescence,
Difficult to see you in this light.
Please forgive this bold suggestion:
Should you see your Maker's face tonight,
Look Him in the eye, look Him in the eye, and tell Him:
I never lived a lie, never took a life, but surely saved one.
Hallelujah, it's time for You to bring me home.

Lyrics provided by http://toolshed.down.net/lyrics/10kdayslyrics.php and edited by me, Mickey.

When you do the math, you'll notice that 10,000 days was about the amount of time that Judith Marie lived after her
brain aneurysm until she passed away, which was about 27 years.

"Jimmy" by
Tool from the album ├ćnima

What was it like to see
The face of your own stability
Suddenly look away
Leaving you with the dead and hopeless?

Eleven and she was gone.
Eleven is when we waved good-bye.
Eleven is standing still,
Waiting for me to free him
By coming home.

Moving me with a sound.
Opening me within a gesture.
Drawing me down and in,
Showing me where it all began,
Eleven.

It took so long to realize that
You hold the light that's been leading me back home.

Under a dead Ohio sky,
Eleven has been and will be waiting,
Defending his light,
And wondering...
Where the hell have I been?
Sleeping, lost, and numb.
So glad that I have found you.
I am wide awake and heading home.

Hold your light,
Eleven.
Lead me through each gentle step by step
by inch by loaded memory.

I'll move to heal
As soon as pain allows so we can
Reunite and both move on together.

Hold your light,
Eleven. Lead me through each gentle step by step
By inch by loaded memory
'till one and one are one, eleven,
So glow, child, glow.

I'm heading back home.

Lyrics provided by http://toolshed.down.net/lyrics/aenimalyrics.php.

Also, from what I've gathered, the song "Jimmy" from
Tool's ├ćnima album (I assume Maynard James Keenan is referring to his middle name as "Jimmy"), is his response to when Judith Marie became physically disabled when "Jimmy" was only eleven years old. I also speculate that perhaps Judith Marie may have called Maynard James Keenan as "Jimmy" (his first name was originally "James"), but I have no facts to base this on, but only the song.

Also, from what little I’ve heard and read, “10,000 days” also has significance in the
Kabbalah. I’ve even heard other songs by other groups on the radio that refer to “10,000 days”, and often wondered if they studied the Kabbalah or were Kabbalists. If anyone reading this knows anything about this topic, PLEASE reply to this blog!

This website listed below goes into a lot of detail about
Tool's album 10,000 Days...


And for those of you who want to know more about Maynard James Keenan, please check out his Wikipedia page:


I've gotten a response or two stating about how my blog here isn't "enlightening" at all, that many people knew of this long before I did. I'm not writing this as a "oh, let me share what I know that no one else does", but this blog is only for those out there who do want to know who "Judith Marie" is and just now found out. This has been known for quite some time, and I'm only sharing my "experience" into finding out who Judith Marie was, and that's all. :-)

I welcome any and all comments, including other websites and web pages that delve deeper into this topic.

35 comments:

Ken said...

I googled "judith marie" because I have recently found a love for tool's wings part 2, and was wondering who she is. I have found all the answers! I love that you went through the trouble of making links!!! Honestly, reading her obituary, ... that moment of suspicion, followed by realization, is a brief sequence of my life that I will remember forever.
Thank you for allowing me to experience your life changing moment, that you obviously cherish, as if it were my own, so that I can now cherish it also.
Renewed,
Ken

Mickey said...

Thanks man, I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed finding out who Judith Marie was as much as I did.

boaz said...

its nice to knew that im not the only one that wOnder, what does he sing in this powerful song and albom.
and now i knew.
thank you
boaz

Tanya said...

wow, thank you so much for this. i was wondering the same thing and now i'm in just utter amazement. i know "Judith" had something to do with his mother but i never understood what everything else was about. once again, thank you.

Wesley said...

So i never knew who she was either thanks to your blog i now do. But my question is does Maynard believe in Yawey and chooses not to live "the way"? Or does he deny the existance of Yawey? Obviously he would probably choose to imortalize his mother either way... But his music confuses me about where he stands in his beliefs, seems as though he may believe but is angry at God...
Thx for your site btw

Anonymous said...

I was reading this blog. Interesting stuff. You say that 10,000 days might refer to a religious text?

The obituary for judith says she suffered the brain condition 27 years ago. 27 times 365 is about 9900. close to 10,000 days. it seems that this would be the reference, as some of the lyrics seem to indicate.

you probably already know this, but hey. Good stuff. Thanks for the info.

Bilby P. Dalgyte said...

I agree with Anonymous. 10 000 days I believe is a reference to her living for nearly 10 000 days after the anuerysm. But you also add another level to this by talking about the religious significance which resonates with the theme of 10 000 days (Wings Part 2). That's quite clever there good job :)

Bert-Jan said...

Be it a year after your original post I just want to say thank you, your blog was quite helpful to me to figuring this song out and still giving that 'wow' factor as if I had discovered these things myself.

I've only recently discovered the album 10,000 days although I knew Tool (and saw them live a couple of times). Jimmy from Aenema is kindof my favourite song and I find it fascinating to see the link between Jimmy and these two epic songs.

Been listening the two Wings-songs non stop for the last month or so (well at least 3hrs a day in the train to work) and I now I know why this song feels so real (listening to this kind of song is the closest I'll ever get to a religious experience), and why the emotions felt are portrayed so brilliantly and honestly.

Cheers and greets!

keith cayosa said...

One question.
Oerstes, another song from mer de noms. Orestes is an ancient greek character, son of Agamemnon. Base on Homer, he killed his mother to avenge the murder of her father. I really thought he hate's her mother.

Mickey said...

First, I'd like to thank you all for your comments and for keeping both A Perfect Circle's and Tool's lyrics alive.

I briefly read through the story of Orestes, and then read the lyrics to A Perfect Circle's song, and then tried to link the two together. I don't really think Maynard hated and wanted to kill his mother, but highly respected her instead, even though he didn't understand his mother's religious beliefs despite her medical conditions. Although with the story of Orestes in mind, he still could be singing about someone else in his life (which is probably more true), or simply about the story of Orestes itself, which isn't his normal writing style, since most of his lyrics are very personal and usually not writing from a 3rd Person POV (point of view). The song itself is left very open to interpretation, which is definitely Maynard's overall writing style (mentioned in a few interviews with him). So basically, you can take the song just about any way you wish, but most likely, if it has to do directly with his mother, then it's more metaphorical than literal, which again, is definitely his writing style.

jfiglioli said...

Hey thanks you so much. It really helped me look at it from a whole new light(just like what you were saying from Pushit live).

I have loved Tool and APC for a long time now and I was intently listening to wings part 2 the other day and heard Judith Marie, I of course, had already heard APC's "Judith", but it wasn't until I was on the Cadeceus website (Maynard's Wine) and saw a wine named Nagual del Judith, that I decided to google Judith Marie. Thanks a lot for this information. I really feel closer to these three songs now.

jfiglioli said...

Oh, and by the way when 10,000 days first came out did the math on a calculator. 10,000 days is 27 years which is how long his mother lived after her brain aneurysm. So i don't know if you mentioned this but I thought it might answer your question about the title.

Anonymous said...

Keenan was very right when he said "they'll only read about."

Yale said...

Thank you for posting this blog, it was enlightening to listen to tools / apc's songs after learning about Judith Marie.

Mickey said...

Thanks again guys, I appreciate all of the compliments. I had forgot to mention the significance of "10,000 Days" in my blog, and decided to add it at the end of the song.

Shopping Cart said...

I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.

Anonymous said...

This may be a little off, but each neuron in the human brain is estimated to connect to 10000 others. Many of their titles and words in their lyrics pull from in depth knowledge of uncommon words and thoughts. schism- math lateralus- combining greek and latin words

Mike said...

Thank you, this is a great post.

Mickey said...

Thanks guys, I appreciate your comments. I haven't read of any connection between 10,000 days and how each neuron is connected to 10,000 others (called synapses), but it's definitely possible it could be a "hidden" (alternate) meaning.

"And you will come to find that we are all one mind" - Reflections

However, I have read somewhere that the number "10,000" has some sort of significance in Kabbalah, but not sure. I have researched Kabbalah some, and have read somewhere that Maynard's somewhat fascinated in the topic, as well, and a couple of songs reflect that.

Mickey said...

Ah-ha!!! I found the connection between the number 10,000 and Kabbalah! From what I can understand, Kabbalists believe that souls attain different "degrees" in their understanding, usually based within a time period. Most maintain their current degree within 6,000 years, but others may attain higher degrees over longer periods of time. The highest attainable degree possible takes 10,000 years, a degree higher than Partzuf Galgalta.

And while we're on the topic of alternate meanings, in the song "Jimmy", the number eleven (11:11 to be exact) is referenced as the digital code of awakening, important number in magick to Aleister Crowley (TOOL members are a fan of, especially Danny Carey), etc.

Basically, you could drive yourself insane trying to figure out all of the alternate meanings and messages in TOOL's songs. I personally believe is that the best way to figure a song out is to read the lyrics, and based upon your current knowledge and understanding, take away from the song what you will. Thus, we all could have our own interpretations and alternate meanings of their songs.

Anonymous said...

Opulently I acquiesce in but I dream the collection should acquire more info then it has.

Josh said...

In the song 10,000 Days Part 2 there is a couple lines that are of interest:
"Fetch me the spirit, the son, and the father.
Tell them their pillar of faith has ascended."

Which make more sense after finding this picture.

http://www.toolband.com/images/judith.jpg

I know alot of people know this, but it was part of my A-Ha moment!!

Tobias said...

Thanks for the great research, all was new to me, I thought of a more biblical background of Judith or Marie, but now realize it's a real life story. Wow.

Fakhruddin40 said...

This blog is so useful for those who are interested in Plolitics, Music and computer.

Plastic Card

BLKROB56 said...

Thank you. Robert M. Davis

fallenangel24 said...

I might be late, but I had to comment. I recently developed a love for Tool and 10000 Days. Wings Part 2 is no doubt my favorite and after reading your blog post, I'm sure it's gonna be my favorite for a long while. Such depth in a song comes only once in a while.

Wojtek said...

It is also interesting who is the second figure. Who is about 10000 days both parts. Did you ever realized that if you translate "to carry the light" into latin you will get a name of the fallen: Lucifer

Mickey said...

Thanks everyone for your comments. Sorry I haven't responded in a while. Between school, work, and family during the holidays, I've been quite busy.
Wojtek is correct about translating the line "to carry the light" into latin is Lucifer. Does that mean TOOL are Satanists? I highly doubt it (just visit Danny Carey's website at http://www.dannycarey.org/ and he seems to be interested in The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn), but it definitely shows how much they know about religion, and throw in all sorts of hidden meanings. I see this line as being either facetious or sarcastic, perhaps, in reference towards the church.

Youssef said...

hmm doubtful , by visiting Danny's website , first of all i saw The Unicursal hexagrame :o check this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicursal_hexagram

Youssef said...

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs274.snc6/180283_141308772596267_138504519543359_245277_6103625_n.jpg

Shawna said...

I stumbled accross this and had to comment.
I've been a Tool fan since 1994. I was obsessed with them up until 2 years ago.
I knew all about the Judith research that you did, and got a laugh because it's been common knowledge in the "Tool band" community before 10k days had even been released.

Anyway, that's not why I'm posting this.

I saw a mention of "cult" and "Tool", don't be fooled, they may not even be aware of it, but they are doing the work of Satan.

When I was going through my deepest obsession of the band, listening to them night and day, watching all the live bootleg videos of them from 1992-2007, I had some weird things happen to me that were from evil spirits.
I started to get attacked while sleeping and I felt my soul wear thinner than paper. Basically, I felt like I was empty, sucked dry. On several occasions I could feel something trying to rip my soul out of my body.

I was in denial on the whole sacred geometry thing, I even did some research on it and thought it was harmless. Back in 2007, I saw them in NJ, in between 10k days and Lateralus they did this weird 10 min long, ufo/sacred geometry thing above the stage.

When I stopped with the obsession of Tool and turned to the Lord Jesus Christ, these horrifying attacks stoped immediatley and my soul does not feel worn thin anymore.

Was Tool the cause of my tourments?
I highly doubt it, but, I know in my heart of hearts, the music kept me in a place that was not good for my soul.

The Lord has removed my love of thier music and I don't even listen to them anymore.

as for MJK, and his stance on Jesus.
Only the Lord knows his heart and if his name is written in the Lamb's book of life.
His mother's testimony that he witnessed, is more powerful than what most of us will ever get to see, I just hope MJK accepts the truth about salvation before it's too late.

My advice to any of you-
Be careful what you listen to, especially if you find yourself obsessed with a band, and turn to The Lord Jesus. We are at the doorstep to the great tribulation.

God Bless,
Shawna

Also, "James" is his first name. He added "Maynard" in the 80's.

Mickey said...

Youssef:
Danny also mentioned somewhere on his website that he collects first edition books written by Aleister Crowley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleister_Crowley)

Shawna:
I respect your beliefs and your religion, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I agree with them. I, too, have been a TOOL fan since 1993 back when "Sober" first aired, and never had any negative experiences. In fact, a few of their songs, such as "Forty-six & 2" and "Reflections" have always been a positive, uplifting experience for me.

Most, if not all, religions have their fair share of geometric shapes and symbols, including Judaism (such as the Star of David, which is nothing more than two interlocking triangles) and Christianity (such as the cross, which has its pagan roots). Geometric shapes and symbols are just as much part of most religions as human history is; and many shapes and symbols are borrowed, shared, and even slightly modified between different religions, including Christianity.

Although I'm a huge fan of TOOL, I've never considered myself "obsessed" with them, since the lyrics and music written are simply by other people much like you and I, but who are very gifted and talented. Although I consider TOOL to be one of the most talented bands ever, they are still just human beings like the rest of us.

I could honestly say that your personal experiences are the exception and not the norm, and that I am sincerely sorry you had these very horrific experiences.

Youssef said...

Shawna , i do agree with you it's quite weird thing , especially while listening to 10k days , i was "obsessed" listening this track days & nights , iThink it's Danny's after-effect : D >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabbalah<<

Alfiezy said...

I came across your blog while looking for answers to 10,000 days songs. You saved me lots of time by posting this blog. I am a huge Tool fan, now with a better understanding than I previously had. I am sharing this knowledge with all my friends and family who love Tool as much as I do. Good job, thank you very much!!!

Frank.M said...

I have known for a while that Judith Marie was Maynard's mother. Only because I'm somewhat of a Tool nut. Maynard is one of my favorite writers, as well as musicians. I've studied the hell out of his music. I've found in every song there is always a deeper meaning behind the lyrics. Just listening to his music, whether its from Tool, APC, or Puscifer, its an experience in its self.
The man is a musical God, if you will. His music is both inspirational, and moving. Its just downright good. Hands down.
Im glad you put this blog together, and I praise you. I feel everyone should know his greatness, even if they aren't into that type of music. Still recognize him as something great. Because like you said, finding out the secrets behind his words, is truly amazing.
My hats off to you sir!